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Rear contra/torque Spring

How to fix and maintain your C3 and Break-in tips

Rear contra/torque Spring

Postby boxybrown » Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:45 pm

I have been messing with the torque spring quite a bit, and some of my best results on a stock C3 is with the white malossi contra spring. My results I describe are from a couple months ago and when I was on 120 stock tires.

My first change on the cvt from a stock setup was going to 4.2 malossi rollers from stock 6 grams. That gave me a lot of acceleration and torque, but I noticed the speedo needle would only hit halfway through the yamaha symbol, about 38 mph id say. I rode on that for a while, until I got my 4 gram sliders. What a difference!!! The sliders got me smoother and better acceleration and a smidge more top end. One thing I hated was the "floating" feeling when letting off from full speed and then trying to pick back up from lets say 30mph.

I bought a white malossi spring made for the minarelli engines, and first thing I noticed is the spring is a bit stiffer, but also quite shorter.

Image

After installing the white spring, I noticed a lot better acceleration all around, with better "downshifting" and a little more top end. Maybe another mph. On that setup, 4 gram sliders and the white spring, I was getting real good acceleration and hill climbing, but my variator markings showed I wasnt getting full belt travel. So I put in 4.5 rollers and got all the top speed back, with a small sacrifice on low end, not much though. With 4.5 sliders it would have been perfect for me, until I got the 140 tires.

After putting the larger tires on, I could tell the 4.5 rollers were too heavy and pushing out too fast. So I decided to try the 4 gram sliders once more to see what happens. Turns out with the big tires the 4 grams sliders gave me good acceleration, and somehow are able to push out all the way. I get full belt travel and hit about 45mph top speed when the rev limiter hits. (I gotta tuck to squeeze the final few mphs out of it)

The other day I tried a yellow spring to see what happens, and it was terrible. engine revs up too much and I hit a wall at 40. That was on 5.5 rollers. So I tried the 6 gram rollers and still hit the wall at 40 mph. It gets to that speed and then the engine just revs to the limiter. Im thinking the spring it just too strong for how much power the C3 makes. Im going to switch back to the white spring and 4 gram sliders. seems to be the best for now.

I hope this helps in fine tuning the cvt, because a properly tuned cvt is very important for a 50cc to get the most out of it.

Take care and Ride safe.
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Re: Rear contra/torque Spring

Postby Ben L. » Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:35 pm

Thanks for the info! I don't think many people here have touched their contra springs, myself included. Next spring maybe I'll do some experimenting. I'll have to take your advice and start with the 4 gram sliders and white spring.
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Re: Rear contra/torque Spring

Postby boxybrown » Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:08 pm

A lot of people overlook the contra spring. It is definitely important to balance the cvt. I just want to remind people that I am only getting full travel with 4 gram sliders and white spring on the bigger tires. On the 120 tires it was reving out too soon and not getting full travel. I weigh about 180 lbs to give people an idea of setup vs weight.

Also today I did a "ghetto" test to compare the contra springs. My friends method is to push down on the spring on a bath scale to the same height. These measurements are rough, but give a good idea. the stock spring gave a reading of 42lbs. while the white spring said 47lbs. So the spring is a little shorter and stiffer.

Im gonna pull that yellow spring out today and go back to 4grammers and white spring. Ill measure the yellow spring at some point just to see the difference.
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Re: Rear contra/torque Spring

Postby gabe502000 » Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:21 pm

Hello boxybrown, I appreciate you posting your clutch spring experiments...Not a little bit of work involved here! My stock clutch has given such good service, all I do to it is clean the shoes, and the inside of the bell, a couple of times a year...However, the results you're getting may encourage me to mess with the springs this winter!
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Re: Rear contra/torque Spring

Postby boxybrown » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:15 am

The clutch is amazing. I am not even halfway through my clutch pads after over 8k miles. Every time the bell comes off its gets a good scuffing.

I took that strong yellow spring out and am back to my white contra and 4 gram sliders its definitely the best setup with that 140 tire. I have yet to measure the resistance of the yellow spring, but its a tough one.

The Irony of all this is that a while back I called a local "reputable" scooter shop, and talked to one employee on the phone asking about their stock on white springs. He said they have it but I should run a yellow, and that's what they put in all the C3's they upgrade.

I bought my white spring somewhere else.
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Re: Rear contra/torque Spring

Postby Ben L. » Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:41 am

Do you keep track of your gas mileage when trying out different setups?
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Re: Rear contra/torque Spring

Postby Ben L. » Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:47 am

boxybrown wrote:
The Irony of all this is that a while back I called a local "reputable" scooter shop, and talked to one employee on the phone asking about their stock on white springs. He said they have it but I should run a yellow, and that's what they put in all the C3's they upgrade.

I bought my white spring somewhere else.


By "all" do they mean they never did one before? Lol, jk.
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Re: Rear contra/torque Spring

Postby boxybrown » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:11 pm

I feel bad if they did put yellow springs some C3's. I couldnt get past 40 mph with 6 gram rollers and the engine was working way too hard. The belt travel was horrible.

I dont really keep track too much on gas mileage. As long as I get over 100 mpg Im fine with it. The white spring raised rpms a bit, which gets the better acceleration, but I assume higher rpms means less mpg.
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Re: Rear contra/torque Spring

Postby boxybrown » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:19 pm

Did a measurement on the bath scale with the yellow spring, and it measured 62 lbs!

Its the same height as the white spring.

Stock-42lbs
White- 47lbs
Yellow- 62lbs
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Re: Rear contra/torque Spring

Postby Sporty » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:45 pm

boxybrown wrote:Did a measurement on the bath scale with the yellow spring, and it measured 62 lbs!

Its the same height as the white spring.

Stock-42lbs
White- 47lbs
Yellow- 62lbs


Now that's a big difference :shock:
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